Finally tuning in (audio is not an easy method of intake for me, sorry). Love the laughs about a Canadian coded social media platform, so true. A state-funded platform would likely be met with paranoia by many...a unifying experience, maybe? 😂
Identities ➡️ fandom is fascinating to ponder. Tribalism seems to be in vogue the last few years whether it be a grassroots endeavour, a marketing ploy, political, etc.
Finally, something that can unite all Canadians! Lmao. I’m so curious about the books that will be written once we’ve lived a bit longer with the internet. Has it intensified tribalism? Has it made more visible a tribalism that was there all along? Is tribalism more attributable to economic or social conditions than to our engagement with new technologies? So many questions!
Sep 9, 2023·edited Sep 9, 2023Liked by Kier Adrian Gray
I’m a boomer and one thing this really brought home to me is how someone you know and love might end up with an identity that seemingly came out of nowhere. As extreme examples I’m thinking of parents who have kids radicalized into joining ISIS or kids whose parents believe Q Anon conspiracy theories. So estrangement from family and friends can be a direct result of one person going online and finding themselves in a place that gives them answers, true or not, that satisfy a need. I don’t blame the person who went online, possibly in a very vulnerable state. It’s possible that their friends and family weren’t emotionally available or had no time for them. But the consequences for relationships can be pretty disastrous, imo.
(By the way, when I was young there were no cellphones. Just libraries and landlines. Oh, and long distance telephone rates were so high that most calls were local calls.)
I still find it concerning when I hear people talking about online communities. My idea of community is so different. It has more to do with people being together physically, perhaps talking and doing things with one another. I’m not saying that you can’t find good support or possibly friendship online. But community? For me that continues to be a stretch. Of course the fact that people in online forums can turn on you if you step out of line reinforces my belief that some of these are “pseudo communities” at best.
Here’s what I think is the saddest part. If people find what they think of as community online, there’s going to be an opportunity cost. Do they lose the experience of participating in or even building local communities? Do they find themselves relating less and less to old friends or family members as they assume whatever identity is demanded by their participation in the online community? Is this where so much of the loneliness social scientists tell us about starts? Is this why there are less and less volunteers and community groups in the “real world”? Is this part of why people can become so alienated from themselves and from one another?
When I was young I spent a lot of time on Toronto subway lines. The way I remember it, people made eye contact a lot, often with a smile. Not infrequently a conversation ensued. In my memory it was considered mildly rude not to acknowledge other people you shared physical space with. These days when I’m out in public, I notice that it is no longer normal to make eye contact with people you ride with on public transit or pass on the street. (The occasional exception to this is with other older people, especially women.) I actually worry that these days it might be considered rude or creepy to try to make eye contact with or smile at a stranger, so I mostly avert my eyes now, joining in on the new behavioural norm. (Mind you, on public transit people aren’t averting their eyes. They just have them glued to a device.)
I know, I know. I’m sounding old and disgruntled and I’m sorry for that. But I did want to share with you my reaction to your podcast. It’s from someone who spent most of their life not knowing that podcasts and online communities would be invented and who’s busy trying understand the changes I’m noticing in the way we humans interact with one another.
So thanks for what was obviously a really thought provoking podcast. I’m looking forward to the next one.
Wow. That really resonated with me. Molly has lived most of her life in the internet era, yet she sees some of its downsides the same way I do. After reading that, I’m definitely going to take a risk and start smiling at people younger than me.
Let me know if our podcast is not yet available on your preferred app and I'll sort that out.
Finally tuning in (audio is not an easy method of intake for me, sorry). Love the laughs about a Canadian coded social media platform, so true. A state-funded platform would likely be met with paranoia by many...a unifying experience, maybe? 😂
Identities ➡️ fandom is fascinating to ponder. Tribalism seems to be in vogue the last few years whether it be a grassroots endeavour, a marketing ploy, political, etc.
Finally, something that can unite all Canadians! Lmao. I’m so curious about the books that will be written once we’ve lived a bit longer with the internet. Has it intensified tribalism? Has it made more visible a tribalism that was there all along? Is tribalism more attributable to economic or social conditions than to our engagement with new technologies? So many questions!
I’m a boomer and one thing this really brought home to me is how someone you know and love might end up with an identity that seemingly came out of nowhere. As extreme examples I’m thinking of parents who have kids radicalized into joining ISIS or kids whose parents believe Q Anon conspiracy theories. So estrangement from family and friends can be a direct result of one person going online and finding themselves in a place that gives them answers, true or not, that satisfy a need. I don’t blame the person who went online, possibly in a very vulnerable state. It’s possible that their friends and family weren’t emotionally available or had no time for them. But the consequences for relationships can be pretty disastrous, imo.
(By the way, when I was young there were no cellphones. Just libraries and landlines. Oh, and long distance telephone rates were so high that most calls were local calls.)
I still find it concerning when I hear people talking about online communities. My idea of community is so different. It has more to do with people being together physically, perhaps talking and doing things with one another. I’m not saying that you can’t find good support or possibly friendship online. But community? For me that continues to be a stretch. Of course the fact that people in online forums can turn on you if you step out of line reinforces my belief that some of these are “pseudo communities” at best.
Here’s what I think is the saddest part. If people find what they think of as community online, there’s going to be an opportunity cost. Do they lose the experience of participating in or even building local communities? Do they find themselves relating less and less to old friends or family members as they assume whatever identity is demanded by their participation in the online community? Is this where so much of the loneliness social scientists tell us about starts? Is this why there are less and less volunteers and community groups in the “real world”? Is this part of why people can become so alienated from themselves and from one another?
When I was young I spent a lot of time on Toronto subway lines. The way I remember it, people made eye contact a lot, often with a smile. Not infrequently a conversation ensued. In my memory it was considered mildly rude not to acknowledge other people you shared physical space with. These days when I’m out in public, I notice that it is no longer normal to make eye contact with people you ride with on public transit or pass on the street. (The occasional exception to this is with other older people, especially women.) I actually worry that these days it might be considered rude or creepy to try to make eye contact with or smile at a stranger, so I mostly avert my eyes now, joining in on the new behavioural norm. (Mind you, on public transit people aren’t averting their eyes. They just have them glued to a device.)
I know, I know. I’m sounding old and disgruntled and I’m sorry for that. But I did want to share with you my reaction to your podcast. It’s from someone who spent most of their life not knowing that podcasts and online communities would be invented and who’s busy trying understand the changes I’m noticing in the way we humans interact with one another.
So thanks for what was obviously a really thought provoking podcast. I’m looking forward to the next one.
I enjoy reading your reflections on community and social norms over time. I wonder if you might enjoy this essay about loneliness and fear of strangers: https://open.substack.com/pub/mollyfrances/p/my-loneliness-is-killing-me-and-why
Wow. That really resonated with me. Molly has lived most of her life in the internet era, yet she sees some of its downsides the same way I do. After reading that, I’m definitely going to take a risk and start smiling at people younger than me.
I think that’s a great idea; they may greatly appreciate it!
Topic timestamps in the YouTube vid would be goat
Done; thanks for the suggestion!